Lucas Miller was a contestant on season 1 of the Alone show. In this episode Lucas and talk quite a bit about philosophy, being kind to others, what is important in life, and much more. This conversation was extremely important to me personally as I learned a lot about myself through talking with Lucas. I hope you enjoy!

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Transcript:

Sam 0:14

Welcome to Episode 14 of the alone podcast we have with us today, Lucas Miller, you'll remember Lucas from season one of the alone show. So Lucas, thank you for coming on with us today. I know that this has been what you were out six or seven years ago. And it's been six years since your season aired. So, thank you for taking time out of your day and your life and your schedule to sit down and visit. Yeah, happy to be here. Sam. I'm super excited to chat and get to know you a little bit and hear you have to share. So I think, I guess first before I start with, with letting you share your bio,

you know, your yoga is a thing that's on your History Channel bio, your your Instagram handle mentions Yoga.

But I have not seen a single yoga pose picture. And I feel like that's requisite if you're going to announce yourself to the world as a yogi.

Lucas Miller 1:09

Oh, yeah, what's going on there? I think I think you're calling me out right away, shots fired. So, so yeah, I have actually studied a lot of Yoga I, I did, I think in my bio, it mentions that I got hit by a tick back in 2006. And I got Lyme disease. And so it really forced a lifestyle change for me. And I had to begin to be careful and mindful of like, foods that I ate, not because I was following a specific diet, but just trying to eat things that would work well for my body, I was finding like things like processed weeds, so on and so forth would would make my joints start to feel like they were crawling, like my skin would feel like crawling in my joints and feel like they're buzzing like like, you know, like an old TV, that sort of thing.

And so and so on that journey I also found, got into martial arts a little bit and found ultimately that yoga and certain type of fasting and diet change was really amazing. And so it started a whole,

it started a whole thing of, and it actually ties in to actually all of this, but it became, it's almost like as if that tick bite sealed some sort of feet. And I had to start to do things that I really always felt called to do. Like, I could no longer take like a job that was just the job, I had to be doing something that made my I know sounds cheesy, but like my heart sing, like it had to make my body like happy, be like I had to make my entire being happy is maybe the right word, but like challenged in the way, because happiness is fleeting, and it comes and goes. But I should say like, I couldn't be in the, I couldn't be doing things that felt wrong anymore. Maybe that's a better way of saying it. And and then to be more specific with the yoga stuff. I've taken a yoga teacher training four times, so that means I have maybe five now, I probably have 1000 hours of yoga teacher training, which puts me darn near doctorate degree like an Ayurveda. I'm an aggravated practitioner to which your data is this study of life. And it's one of the oldest Indian forms of medicine from India, and it kind of actually originates more on the Himalayas. So I guess, India kind of claims it, but it's also a part of many other cultures around there. So so I really jumped into that. And, you know, yoga is more than I'm just gonna share a little bit about it, but it's more than the the poses, the asana poses, there's actually eight limbs to it. One of them are like, ethical precepts, like self study, do no harm to anything unnecessarily. So that is just as much a yoga like, for example, self study and practice seeing, you know, Brahmacharya, which means like not being sexually excessive or too much. Like it's kind of like yoga is really just practicing like the middle way with a lot of things not trying to be too high and too low. And the asana helps clear out, like make your body a bit more supple and connects you to breath, so that you can ultimately get to the last limb of yoga, which has been able to, like sit still and be able to be absorbed into deep prayer or godness. You know? So I mean, I'm oversimplifying things like right like I'm like making things really, really quick for the interview. But yeah, I, I guess I guess only to say this, that the yoga part is a part of like, how I pray and I guess I never want to sell that. I didn't answer your question. Yeah. I have Oh, no. Yeah.

Sam 5:03

No, I absolutely love that. And thanks for for humoring me with a joke there. But that is i, that's fantastic. I learned more about yoga in the last, like, two minutes than I ever have. So I have a question. That's just based on that. You said there's eight arms of yoga. Is that correct? Yeah. So you said, yep. So I feel like I've seen a representation that I always feel felt was a deity. Is there an image that is that's out there that like, basically a person with multiple appendages? Yeah, related to what you're talking about?

Lucas Miller 5:33

No, it isn't. And I'm not necessarily, but I know exactly what you're talking about, um, you might be talking about a form of Shiva. Okay. And, but there are other gods and goddesses that have multiple arms, and they all are, but it does relate to it. But yoga isn't about like, honoring a specific deity. That's about like, in my opinion, but that is oftentimes in yoga studios. And, and, you know, you see a picture of this, this, this deity, but it has to do with the many forms that they take. So I think, you know, where you, like, we were talking just a little bit beforehand, before starting about, like, your faith, and and we didn't get into my faith necessarily. But in a lot of polytheistic religions, they try to, I mean, I imagine that they try to figure out like, why, why something like death can happen, right. Like, in, in, in where I grew up, I grew up on Christian, I think I grew up like Unitarian, and then eventually switched over to Catholicism when I was 12, my mother encouraged us and so I was getting confirmed at like, 12 and baptized at 12 in the Catholic Church. But um, you know, like, it's always a funny question to ask our religious teachers like, why why did that car accident, take all those, that young child and the mother like, why, you know, and then, and in Indian religion, they have, they have a deity that will, will crush but also brings out life. And so there is a dark side, to God. And in our, and where I grew up, it was like, the Lord moves in mysterious ways. And like, you know, like, it kind of felt like I don't know, like, but in, in, in another faith, like in India, there is a direct representation for the destroyer, for the one who creates chaos, and the one who brings pain in the one who brings lightning storms and fear. And that is also with all those chaos moments is exactly also where the grass starts to turn green. Again, life starts to spring out after the storms come. And so it becomes more part of life.

Sam 7:43

And that's built into that deity. Like that, yeah, built into that deities story. And they're exactly as beautiful.

Lucas Miller 7:51

Yeah, like, also triumphant, there's a triumphant part, a part of that deity with the eight arms is holding a like a skim tar, like a curved sickle type blade that chops off the heads of men. And it's basically the ego. And we were talking a little bit about this before we're starting to so it is an ego destroyer, it's going to continue to cut off your head and all the ego in it. And then oftentimes, if you ever see that deity again, she's stepping on headless men like she's she's like crushing head this man because she's trying to get you, he or she that image is trying to get you closer to your true self trying to get you closer to the the truest essence of yourself, which is that the truest essence of all of us? I know. It's a little far fetched. I know I'm getting a little

Sam 8:39

No, I'm getting a little out there. But no, you're not. It's funny. I was just gonna say like, I'm sorry, mom. But you're talking about the ego and man we like, got, we got in it quick. We're talking about ego and something for me there, there are certain experiences that human beings can have, through natural means that help break down that ego barrier. So we get Sorry, mom, but I like it's so fascinating to me, I think that's an experience that that is just so intriguing to me to have to have that happen and to be able to feel yourself without yourself being in the way it seems like it's really beautiful and eye opening and enhancing experience and opportunity. However,

Lucas Miller 9:26

those sort those sort of ego deaths, which I think could be that for a lot of people and alone, I think there's also an ego build up that happens after alone, because because you're so vulnerable. You've just like, pull off all these layers and the world is seeing me like, you know, like I'll say that I said this in other interviews but like snapped down my nose and crying and like, my own family hasn't seen me like that, you know, like, well, they have now shared it on alone. But you know, all these triumphs and all these moments of You know, catabolic, this just like breaking down, breaking down breaking down, like, that is really happening. That's really real, and the world gets to see it. It's like a slow erosion. Oftentimes, not only some people I think broke down really quick. And so then there has to, you know, you go back home, you have to put on all these masks, you're gonna be like, No, actually, I was tough. I don't know why lost could have worn you know, like, I even said that a few times, that, you know, like, Oh, I could have made one. It's like, no way. Allen was crushing it, you know, all this to say like, it's really interesting being vulnerable, Sam, it's really hard. I don't want to use the word interesting. It's difficult being well, yeah. Especially people you don't know. And even harder, sometimes people you do know, because they might be like, See, I told you so. Or they might come at you. Um, have you ever had a pretty good ego death?

Sam 10:52

You know, I think that's why I want that experience. Right? Is because I now that I know that that's a thing, right. And there's there's different avenues of getting there. I think I mentioned with someone I don't know who I was talking to, and I think we were on record, we might have been off air. You know, I like alone is not a thing that's like, I'm not doing this to get on the show, right. That's not a thing that's in my future. One of the things I had mentioned is that I'm jealous. And I understand that this is a fraught thing for someone in my position to say because there's like way more to it. But that spiritual and internal journey that's that one goes through on the show, which seems like it's a common thread for every single person, I guess there might be certain thresholds and things that are involved in that, but I'm jealous of that opportunity. And I'm jealous of of that journey that people get to go through, because I don't feel like I've ever really, truly experienced that within myself. And I know, like, it feels like something that would benefit me deeply to have that. And so I'm envious, because I don't think I've ever really fully felt that before.

Lucas Miller 12:07

I hear that I don't think a lot of people have in a consistent manner. Only because I mean, I guess that's such a such a broad thing to say what I'm trying to get at is, we have so many things to cover up with our world is really convenient. there's food, there's overwork, there's partnerships, there's television, there's entertainment, so on and so forth, it's really easy to not let ourselves be in a state of vulnerability for long. I don't even when I'm back in this material, more material world, they'll call it, you know, I find myself reaching for a snack or something, you know, like, I feel a little uncomfortable, I should have this, I should do this. And it's really difficult when we're surrounded by the abundance that we have. But you know, in my 20s, in my early 20s, I took a whole phase of life to do a bunch of things that were really uncomfortable. Did you go to college? Did you do that? For yeah,

Sam 13:13

I've yeah, I've done four and then two more and

Lucas Miller 13:17

wow. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's great. And I, and I don't know how old you are on 39. So how old are you?

Sam 13:25

I'm the same age you were when you went out? There. Okay.

Lucas Miller 13:27

Yep, yep. Gotcha. So, so, you know, when we're growing up, we're told that, you know, go to college, you won't be much otherwise. And I mean, I think college is a beautiful tool, if you know what you want to do, and you know how to use it. Or if you have your parents paying for it, and you're okay with that. But like the whole idea of being like, it's a lot of money, you know, if you don't know what you're doing, and I didn't come from that sort of financial wealth. And after a year of college, I decided to and then I went out to Colorado to work at a summer camp. And at the end of the summer camp season where I was supposed to go back to school, I had a gentleman approached me from the Denver county school districts and he says, I've heard you're really good with kids. You really enjoyed being outside. Would you like to stay on being a substitute teacher for an outdoor education program? Basically, you're going to be a full time teacher, we have to hire you under the substitute teaching thing, because you haven't gone to school for four years to be a teacher, you know, you know, and would you like to do that? And we'll pay you pretty handsomely get your own cabin, you get food taken care of during the school week, and I was like, wow, that's a pretty cool opportunity. All right, you know, and I thought about it. I said yes. And it changed my entire life because I started doing things that were that were uncomfortable and being okay with that state of uncomfortableness and would would challenge myself sometimes too much. You know, sometimes looking for that uncomfortable instead of waiting waiting for it to show up and embracing it. I was actually I think for a while there was even chasing it. And I know people who like and then I go back to home in the Midwest, where I'm from, and everybody is like afraid. It seems like a lot of the people that know of are afraid of uncomfortable and they're like, no, no, no. And at one point in time, we used to chase it. And does that make any sense to you? Like, are you? What's your relationship with uncomfortableness?

Sam 15:23

Like it's a it's a good question. It's a, it's about as healthy I think, as a Western modern living in normal society first can have right yeah. Because there's, that's obviously there's so many levels to that. Physically, like I enjoy physical discomfort. Like I enjoy that place. So there's like, for example, all when it's cold outside, or when it's whatever, I choose to not wear things or do things that keep me warm and comfortable. Because I want to maintain my comfort being uncomfortable. Right, so there's, there's things that I do physically to do that. And this is your, you're good at this, you should you should take over the show my friend, I should pass it off.

Lucas Miller 16:19

It's all yours, um,

Sam 16:22

emotionally, probably not so much, right? Like, I think a good way to I think a good I mean, I'm, I'm open, I'm very comfortable with my emotions I'm very comfortable with I don't have to have these big walls and things. But it manifests in different ways. Like, for example, Michelle is gonna laugh at this when she hears this. But, you know, I don't like watching movies and shows that like, make me feel emotions, because I'm not comfortable with outside forces, like messing with my inner. Right. And that's probably where that comes from. I'm not a control person. But I think in that case, I probably am. So yeah, in some ways, I love seeking discomfort. And I love looking for things that push me and challenge me and that that make me feel a certain way. But then in other ways, I definitely recognize them. I know not going there. Don't don't push that on me.

Lucas Miller 17:11

It's so interesting. It's such an honor to be to know that right level of engagement with like being vulnerable, seeking out, like challenge but also like not being just a glutton for challenge are so numb that you don't feel anything. Yeah. I think a part of it is just being able to talk about it, navigate it, like talk about, like having safety, because sometimes I don't know what I feel. And you're I mean, I don't know if you've ever felt that way. It's like the other day, it's like, just like, gosh, I don't know how I feel. Maybe I feel upset about this. Maybe I don't, maybe, maybe I feel complacent. Anyways, we're starting to get into like, no territory, it's kind of like, it's just kind of like, you know, like, at the mural, it's hard to talk about but, but what's interesting about a loan, what I really loved about a loan, just bringing it back to it just for a second is seen all these different archetypes, and how they deal with this process and how they unfold. Whether that's easily or, or you do you see the being behind the mask trembling, and all you see is a lip quivering and they're trying to hold strong or do you see somebody just being like, this is tough, and they're throwing their stuff, but do they deal with it with anger? Do they deal with sadness? Do they process like I was probably probably, I wasn't really an angry person, but I'm a processor. So you've heard me navigate that, you know, talk about it. He saw that people tossing their cameras or stuff, you know, or whatever, it's really interesting to see what how we move through it as people and and I and I like that we get different textures, because there's different contestants. I think they got someone like Callie. Callie the not Kelley Blue Heron, but I forget her name. What is Ellie Russell? Kelly Russell? Yeah, she's a friend of mine even I'm sorry, I forgot your name Kelly. Yeah, we go to primitive skills events together. And she just navigates everything with like joy. Like I'm like I'm watching this person. She's like, Yeah, I'm just so grateful. And yeah, I'm just so stoked on life and Whoa, it's such a beautiful day. And that's beautiful. And that's like that's like so incredible that a person like she you can tell she's going through stuff but she's remembering gratitude always and that's her medicine and it's probably pretty healthy healthy imagine as long as it's authentic for her and I believe that it is she really is that type of person. And then you hear this other thing like false or toxic positivity is starting to be talked about you know, people that are always happy even though you can tell they're just about like half a hair away from just like totally losing it. So much going on

Sam 19:51

IE like every every social media feed basically shouldn't go there.

Lucas Miller 19:56

Right? Totally like, like Yeah, every every young Beautiful, attractive person who's just like living their best life in some exotic location, but you know them, or at least like you've had conversations with them, you're like, This isn't you? And like, I really, I'm over that and love to encourage people to quit showing the bright side. And at the same time, we don't need to also sure heaviest site either like, but I think just to show that they're human, like, how can we show that we're human instead of we're just some person who's always drinking, doing a yoga pose by

Sam 20:28

poses on the mountain? Yeah. I love that you said that. There's like, this is this is what I can already tell. We're 20 minutes in like, Man, I could we could do like a three parter with Lucas, because there's a lot. But one thing that you just mentioned, it just is calling back to mind something that I really appreciate that Justin did. So Justin from season two was the first person on the show, which Justin, I've been meaning to tell you, thank you, I can't even express it, you throw me a bone. And it's been a wonderful thing that you did. But the very end, one of the things that Justin did is he he stopped. He's like, so we've just had this conversation. He's like, speaking to listeners, like, hey, we just had this conversation, you've heard me share all of this stuff. But I want you to know, like, don't think that I've got my stuff together. Right. And so he like took the time to pause in that moment. And to back up, and to share, like, you know, don't get the wrong impression based on what I'm saying today. You know, I've had whatever experiences and I'm doing whatever today. But life isn't perfect. And that's okay. And so I love that you just said that and recalled that, you know, it's it's so important to to give that space, but also to show that other people

Lucas Miller 21:45

to be willing to let people know, I think it has to be that and I think people who are in positions of notoriety, and I wouldn't really put myself in that position. But because we're talking today, like I'm not, you know, I'm not a person who's on the screen or out there a lot. Um, I think it's really important that they share that because it's so easy to idealize a person, if they have a skill set, whether they're an athlete, or they have a look, maybe they're a beautiful person. Maybe they have some, you know, whatever, but it's easy to be like, Oh, you got your stuff together? No, what they do is they have a gift and learn how to exercise it well in the world. And they've had to earn that. Maybe they were given it because of great genetics or maybe and earn that but you know, it's doesn't mean that they are, they are together person and I think so many young people coming up, see, people have great gifts or, or they have gifts or talent. And they really, it's easy to put yourself lower, you know? Because like, I mean, like, How long ago did you start this show? Is it even been three months? It's it's

Sam 22:52

been like dead on it three months? It might I think, I don't know, three months. Like,

Lucas Miller 22:57

yeah, like, you were a person who's alive in your community, like, your world knows you, you're in your world, but now you have a voice outside of the world, right that you exist in. And how cool is that? And that happens really quickly. And that's what it was, like, for me doing a loan. I I existed in these little worlds and communities that existed and nobody knew of me. Yeah. And, and now I, you know, like, it's not like I'm, like out there out there. But you know, I have some known presence in a small sliver, you know, a small reality and, and I do think it is important that to say yeah, just because XYZ happened for me or this person did a movie or that person made an album doesn't mean that they're always great people that they're always got their stuff together doesn't mean they're bad people either, right? Like, but they are people going through a process and that we're all human. And we all have our own lessons that are going to be repeated until they're learned.

Sam 23:59

Yeah. And it's made me think of like, in show business anyone listening who's who's in show business, you can you can write this down but it's any like in showbiz, right, there's the fourth wall, right? And so there's two those that the concept is basically that in any kind of a sitcom. Like think of Seinfeld, for example, you can see three walls of the house at any given time, but you can't see the fourth, because the fourth is where all the cameras and everything is like the fifth wall is then kind of that extra layer of the people themselves and what's actually going on in their true lives. So there's like a, there's a deeper layer and answering that's kind of what I'm trying to do. And with this right is like, let's get to know who you are. We know who we know who you are in two or three minute clips on a screen and like one of the most extreme or the most extreme circumstances of your life, like oh is Lucas. And so for me, it was you know, just going back to what Justin said that was a huge reminder for me of like, okay, I need to make sure I don't get caught up in that right because So when so much of what we consume, and so much of what we see is perfection, and it's people, like you said, living, you know, living their best life. When we all know that that's, you know, living our best life has a lot of of other moments as well.

Lucas Miller 25:15

Right? Totally. Well, let me get concrete a little bit. Let's, let's go back to the the physical reality. So for people wondering when the show left off it It shook me a little bit because it was interesting. It was just it was a whole thing to have the world see me. And that was really validating I, I was talking a little bit about my past and having lived in Colorado. I went on to teach outdoor education for a number of years, I lived in a teepee at 9500 feet right at the base along speak in Estes Park. I took other wilderness guide jobs. Eventually, as I was doing backpacking and outdoor education, I really wanted to know Hey, how can I do this without as much stuff and started getting into primitive skills, I read some Tom Brown Books, I went to tell Brown School once, that was all I needed. And and then I started to find out there were other skills, communities and events that were going on, and I went to a thing called rabbit stick in Idaho. That was really fantastic. And that a lot of my family and future teachers, and then went to another event called Winter count. There's a number of great skills events out there, there's like Saskatoon circle, there's a book Buckeye, there's just lots of them. There's one called between the rivers, it's supposed to be incredible. And so and so yeah, I started to meet people who had real experience doing this stuff. I did it more and more, but you have to understand that like, being in a small town kid from Iowa, who didn't go to college in the 2000s, and and then 2010s, and things like that. I mean, I get calls almost like weekly from my mom being like, are you gonna settle down? Are you gonna go back to school? You're so smart. Why are you doing this stuff? Like, please, you live in a teepee at 9500 feet in the wintertime, you gotta be freezing. Yeah, I am freezing mom, I haven't figured out how to get the smoke just right. And so not only is it freezing, but I'm actually like preserving myself with all the the dug for the spruce smoke, or whatever it is. And so I was doing a bunch of stuff because I wanted to learn, learn things, I wanted to have hands on skills, and I'm probably on diagnosed a DD or ADHD now probably like, way out there. But enough that like, I, I can't be indoors, I can't be in boxes for too long. It just doesn't work for me, I just feel sick, I feel sad and sick. And so being outside with all these living circles, like these, these invisible circles and all these things happening, I could, my brain started to be able to, like digest that work with that. And I also had a joy of sharing that like that's a part of one of my gifts is teaching and sharing. And so working with young adults and and so when the alone show happened for me, I'd done probably 15 years of farming educated education skills, primitive skills, stuff living here living in weird places, figuring out how to turn a hide on my own learning how to turn it to somebody else making bows and arrows hunting with him. Had all these, you know, outdoor skill sets. And then here's this TV show call and said, Hey, we want to highlight that. And I said No, thanks. Like, no, thank you. Interesting. Yeah. And they will, will they they called and they said we want to do a show in Montana November. Can we can we do that? And I'm like, No way. Have you guys ever been in not Montana? November, December? Like no, no, thanks. I don't want to be in 10 foot of snow? Well, it depends on where you are, of course, right? But but they said, well, where would you go if you were to do it? And I said, Well, I would probably do the Pacific Northwest because he might still catch the salmon runs. And they might you'd be able to fish on the ocean and, and the weather's more temperate, you know, and you could, you know, still be probably pretty hard if you are trying to do that thing. And then they call back two weeks later, and I said we're gonna do it somewhere in the Pacific Northwest, you want to do it now. And I said, Sure. And then I did the show after a series of, you know, working with producers and talking to people and going to boot camps. And I'm not going to go into that. But the after effects of the show, you know, it was really healing for me in some way. Because I had been doing all these things for so long away from my big family. I'm one of seven. I was living here living there. And they had no idea how many people came out to visit me. They didn't like, like moments and spurts and things like that, but they started here's this combination of all these skill sets together. I didn't win the show, but I showed up you know, and I did me and I didn't need the best that I could. And my family watched it and people my community watch it. They're like, whoa, we didn't really know you like wow, we didn't understand like my mom, for example. Quit calling and it's just like, oh, you really you She's like, quickly, you know, like that go back to school thing. It's like, oh, you've you've, you've come into

a set of gifts, and you made them your own. And like, this is you and like, and that was probably one of the most healing and beautiful things about doing alone was just letting people like people who didn't know me, who were a part of my life could see me for the, maybe the first time and getting that reflection from them. And it, and there's something about because I was sharing from a vulnerable place. And that's forever on film, they'll talk to him, they talk to me as if I'm still in that place sometimes, which is really sweet. Like, I'm still that vulnerable, and that's beautiful. But um, you know, sometimes I'm not vulnerable. Sometimes I've iced over. And sometimes I'm angry. And sometimes I'm frustrated, but it's really beautiful. At first they talk to me from that place. So I'd say that was one of the most incredible things. Doing alone was just, I guess, being validated. I guess I needed validated Sam.

Sam 30:55

Hey, don't don't we all and it's and it's okay, it's okay. Right. Yeah. You know, you just mentioned is about how some people still see, you know, the the alone Lucas or the Lucas who was, you know, in that experience, it's one of the things I wanted to talk about and see what what has been like for you is because you're the first person I spoken to from season one and season one, you know, was filmed and aired quite a while ago. I mean, you know, in those in that timeframe, like I've had two kids, and I've done, you know, had like three or four different jobs. And I mean, there's a there's a lot of life that happens in that amount of time. And so I guess for you as that time is elapsed, what does that experience still hold for you? And what is it like to be this far? On the other side of that, and how does it still impact you or color your life? Or? Yeah, I'm assuming it does.

Lucas Miller 31:53

Yeah, no, of course, that was a great question, Sam. Um, I think there's a couple of different parts, I'd like to touch upon one, I'm forever grateful that I was had the opportunity to do alone, if only it gave me a reason to stop and to be still. And to be in a really pure, beautiful place. And to have a relationship with myself unfold that I knew kind of was there, but I didn't have the opportunity to deepen with it. And that meant peeling through layers of shame, guilt, fear, sadness, joy, you know, all these things that I wish I had done or said, you know, like moving like, palpating it and then and then like, giving it away to the mom or giving it to God, whatever you want to call it, giving it, giving it up. And then and then seeing what was the next layer and going deeper. And having just this purse, I guess, just say I had a personal experience out there that was personal, but also divine, and connected and something really tremendously beautiful. And difficult. And that is important to me, because I also feel like that's there. Should I ever want to go back? Or could I ever make space or, you know, prioritize a time in my life to do that, again, I don't think it has to be as extreme as alone. But I just have had that experience to go deeper. To to unfold was was incredibly important for me incredibly valuable. Yeah, that that's I wish everybody would have that experience. I've heard him you know, some traditional cultures. You know, young people had to kind of go do that, you know, they had to kind of go up to the mountain and the hill not all cultures but it's it better rites of passage is was pretty normal and a lot of indigenous groups.

Sam 33:48

Yeah, I I had noticed on one of your I think it's just on your you know, your, your Instagram your you're somewhat remembered occasionally remembered Instagram, you have a one of your things talks about coming of, you know, those types of ceremonies and those types of rights. So it seems like that's something that you've spent some time and that you think about can you share that?

Lucas Miller 34:13

Yeah, I think it's probably part of my work that I'll offer in the future. I've been kind of like hibernating I guess. So somewhere, I think. I think I've been I think I've been really like Not sure what to do with it. Like, I think I'm just observing the world and where it's moving. Yeah. And the last number of years has been really divisive. And I've seen a lot of people who normally get along not get along I've seen I've seen politics destroy families, I've seen belief systems destroy communities. And so and so a part of like that yoga thing is to to find the middle way and and it's So many people, I think, want to be extreme this day and age because they feel like extreme is the answer. If I don't stand up for this right now, the whole world is gonna fall apart. And I actually don't know if I've nothing to say I don't believe in standing up for something. That's not what I'm trying to get out. But I believe that if we don't know how to work with our relationships with people, if we choose to cut people off, because they voted Trump or they voted, Biden, you know, or whoever, like, No, you're not my friend anymore, because the vote that like I really, I challenge people to try to think differently there, that we more than ever need to know how to be stable in ourselves, which is a word in yoga called subasta. Stable and self and, and just to have a self stability that if somebody believes in something different than us that we don't fly off the handle. And we can actually have real conversations and still build communities, like, oh, you believe in? Like owning firearms, right? That's why is that important to you? And well, it's actually important to me, because XYZ and I'd like to protect my family, things like that, oh, you care about your family a lot. You know, it's like, it's trying to get to the heart of the matter versus being like, well, so and so did this and so on. So school shooting, do that. And those are horrible things. I'm not here to tell you my beliefs on guns. I'm here to talk about like, how can we stay still, and and, and be able to listen to another person and not fly off the handle and cut them out of our lives? And, and so I've been watching that last couple of years. And I know that isn't really the answer.

Sam 36:39

No, you're expecting like, that's, I think I say this on every single on every single episode. I'm not expecting an answer. Right. Oh, cool. I when I come into these conversations, Luis, I have I there's not like an endpoint I want to get to. I want to get to know you. And what you're saying is resonating with me. I'm really bad at like keeping these ideas of like, I want to do a thing to myself. So like, if anyone wants to steal this one, go ahead, too. But like I've got this idea for a show if this alone podcast wouldn't take up all my spare time. I want to do another show that basically is titled where all wrong and explore exactly what you just talked about. Of like, I feel like the more entrenched you get in something, the more Yeah, and this is like so deep and I don't think we should chase this rabbit. But like, the more deep you get in something, the more wrong you are. It seems like the more the the more like sided you get the more wrong like for example, you mentioned firearms, which is funny. And you might have for those that aren't, that are you know, we can see each other Lucas and I can, you might have seen me start laughing when you said that because one of the moments in my life where I realized that exact thing was I had a good friend or have a good friend who had found out that I had been fortunate enough to shoot a deer and that my fam was eating off of this animal. And he came he's like, you own guns? Yes, I do. I never would have taken you as a gun person. Like, Well, wait, what's a gun person? Right. Right. And so we had just shifted you.

Lucas Miller 38:13

He puts you in that box? Yeah, exactly.

Sam 38:15

And so like, I had, like, blown his mind because he was expecting me to be whatever, right whatever vilified person he had made all firearms owners out to be. And then he found out that his close friend, who, you know, saw the world, like very closely to the same way he did. And a lot of things also had this other side of him. And that like that hit me really hard, not like in a bad way. But it hit me really hard. Like, man, where am I doing that to people? Like where in my life? Am I? Am I doing that to someone? And where in my life? Am I wrong? And I don't even know it. Right. And so that kind of spurred me on a journey. So I love that you said that because that there's a project working out in my mind of, of just talking to people and kind of showing how, you know, we're all wrong. Let's just be friends and get along. Oh,

Lucas Miller 39:10

totally. I've been wrong so many times and have been so entrenched in that nice. I think that's a really good practice what you're saying because you're, you're doing self study, you're doing self reflection, you're saying where it's not where are other people doing it. It's looking at yourself. I used to do it with what I got bit by that tick. I went on this like organic food diet thing, or I just was eating like local organic. I think it's a great thing and still do today. But I was on a kick about it. Sam I went to my sister's house in Texas. And her then husband was like a hard working Texas oil man. And they probably were more lean towards the red state of things. And at that time of my life, I was a free spirited hippie person traveling around eating organic and doing all this stuff and she was feeding your kids like Froot Loops and she liked to the room and the TV was on and I, I did this thing where I like dumped out the bowl of food and started cooking like eggs and toast or something like LC, you know, and she comes back and she's like, What the heck are you doing? And I'm like, I really don't think that's the the choice to make for toddlers. She, you know, she's like, but it's my kid. And it's true. And she was totally right. It was her kid here, I was thinking I was gonna that kid because I was going to give him some of my, I bought, you know, these, these free range eggs that I bought, you know, like, certainly that is healthy, like healthier option. And, but it doesn't make it right. And that didn't make it right for me to step in and try to be a parent over somebody else who was trying to be a parent. And it's just this idea. And my, one of my teachers talks about it. When we travel the same meant full, no pathway again, and again, it creates a rut in our brain. It's like walking a path in soft earth. And eventually, that soft earth becomes a foot deep, we can see where we walked. And if we walk it a lifetime, it becomes like as deep as a grave. And we can't see outside of it. We literally we can't actually anymore. It would hurt it would hurt ourselves to believe something different. It would be so and so it's really beautiful that you're

Sam 41:17

coming back to eat

Lucas Miller 41:18

I guess it's what we're talking about today. Yeah, it's it's isn't it? It's so It's so wild to book. And I remember seeing a bumper sticker growing up, and it made me get it when I first read it. And then it made me laugh a lot. And I've always remembered it. It says don't believe every don't always believe everything you think. And I'm like, wait, what do you mean? Like don't believe everything? I think that's what I believe. And then I started to understand, like, we we we have put over our we've valued more instead of relationships and connection. This idea of I'm rightness, and I have the answer. Like somebody in 30 or 40 or 50 years of life can understand the complexity, socio economic, race, um, Western history, all like all this, like ever these huge all these things interfacing, right, this time in place that we're in, I don't understand what it's like to be a lot like a person from Latin America, who's traveled across the border from where I live, right now, I have no concept of that. I can study it, I can talk to people about it, I can gather information. But I don't know what it's like to be in such a state where I'm willing to travel 1800 2000 miles from my home and risk my life. To to, to to travel to someplace for a better economic opportunity. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, you know, like, not, we're not even discussing, I'm just saying I have no idea. And that has to be really tough no matter what for that person to be in that state.

Sam 42:59

It's funny I. So we haven't I mean, we got off on the deep stuff so fast. So we didn't even get to talk. So Lucas, Lucas, and I lived in the same, not the same time, but we have lived in the same like 75 mile 50 mile circle, which is kind of cool thing. But actually, when I went to put it that way that we have, like, we've actually been in the same place in the middle of nowhere. And you know, we've occupied that same little circle, which I think is fantastic. And so I kind of knew that you were going to that at some point, that conversation was going to happen right with the border everything and not to get into the politic. But that's another perfect example of something. You know, for me, I had, I had one thought process before, and then having lived there for two years, and I've got really close friends, people that I love and respect that. Were for Border Patrol, right? And then I've got people who I love and respect and I have deep, profound, like, they're amazing people that cross the border, illegally, whatever that means, right? And for me, when I came back and where I'm at now, like those things, it's like, it's a people thing. And since it's a people thing, it's not easy. And there's not like a right answer. There's not a perfect answer. It's not black and white, we want things to be black and white. And that's just not the reality when you're dealing with people.

Lucas Miller 44:21

I agree with you so much. I just had this conversation with a friend, actually this morning. And we're talking, I was talking with her and she was saying that her teacher, one of the teachers that she works with, actually encourages them to not try to come down to one truth to 111 thing and in fact, he likes to say, Well, do you want the you want the story? Or do you want the truth? And in which that also made me pause and think about it? Because it was like well every for every situation that happens, all these stories that surround it, then there's the truth. There's many, many, many stories which are aspects of that truth. Then even truth is like, I don't even know if that's something we can always grab. Because unless you have no politics, unless you are unable to walk, walk through a story and not grab onto it with your own ideas, like really see it and hold it like we're always gonna take aside, or we're always gonna, we're always gonna steer the story to whatever your prerogative is, which, you know, I don't know. Yeah, we are, we are stepping off the long topic, is it better that we stay on the

Sam 45:29

topic? No, like I said, again, like, you know, wherever, wherever the conversation takes us, and wherever you want to be, I mean, the thing that I'm trying to do with this show, and it's kind of funny, I think the alone pieces are very well received, right? If I were to do a show, where I said, I'm going to talk to alone, participants about alone, the behind the scenes take on the show, then, you know, i i There would be tons of whatever. But I'm interesting to people. And so wherever, wherever this takes us is where

Lucas Miller 46:01

I'm going, I guess we're here right now, which is talking about the deconstructing of beliefs so that we can be actually human beings. I think that's what I'm interested in talking about deconstructing the beliefs that separates us. I don't think that it's wrong to have belief systems. That's not what I'm trying to get at. But if they separate us if, if they confuse us, if they don't allow us to be come closer to the greater humanity, of all of us that we are all struggling with, I think that they're probably not serving us or serving you or serving me, I think. But it's something so powerful about being right. Isn't that really, like if you think you're right, isn't that such a? Yeah, it's like a drug? No, you have no idea, man, this is how it is. And I know and how many come realizations that you had with that person? Who does speak who's talking over you? Because red in the face who has a right idea about something? They they just feel like they're so right. And it's just like, wow, I we've lost, we've lost contact? Man, you're in outer space right now. And you are on your soapbox and you're just running through your you know, your personal propaganda about what XYZ whatever it is. But you're not kind of curious and open to my belief system. So we're not actually creating there's this term and I Aveda called short Das, which means connections or invisible connections. Sometimes you go connections of the mind are of like, the heart. Sometimes they have more of like a physical intimate connection, but they feel those they can feel them across the room. Right, like and what I'm trying to get at is you can't create any type of connection whether it's love or, or kindness or friendship if someone's just there on their on their parade.

Sam 47:43

Yeah, it's uh, apparently this is the the SAM share his own life stories episode, which if you've been asking me questions, and I love that I hadn't experienced so I am not a small human being, right, I'm a I'm an overweight individual. And I've kind of been away forever. And I've, you know, I've done like, you know, we won't get into all of that, right. But like, I was at a point in my life, where, you know, I was running miles and miles and miles through the mountains, right, I could do you know, up a mountain and down a mountain and then back up the same mount and then back down. And I was I was very healthy, I was very fit very physically active. And I had some some co workers, who I was still very much overweight. And I had some coworkers who one day, we're starting to make fun of and trash and blame people who are overweight, right and belittling them simply because of this physical feature of them. And I stopped and I was like, and I've worked with these people would have been like, three years at the time. And so they'd seen kind of all this whole journey for me. And I was like, guys, like, you realize you're talking about me, right? Yeah, no, we're not, that's not you. Like guys, I'm still like that, in that space. And I, you know, I shared with them, like all of these, all of these metrics that we use today to define a person's physical worth. And, like so you, you realize that you're talking about me those things that you say you're saying about this whole group of people is literally talking to me. And the funny thing about that is, is the reverse there is that since they knew me as a person, and they had the opportunity to get to know me over this course of time, and they understood who I am. They didn't fit me into their box that they had put all these people in because they knew me closely. They knew me personally, they actually it was the same thing with the gun thing, right? Is that the more you get to know someone, and the more you truly get to know them and you are able to put down those notions or whatever you want to call them, the less terrible you see them as and so it was just interesting at the same

Lucas Miller 49:57

at the same time, they're still They, they exempt you, but, but they're still trashing something that you would be a part of like whether you're a gun owner, or you're a person who has more weight on your body and fits yes category or

Sam 50:13

something like that. And it was, the interesting thing to me was that they subconsciously excluded me. Because they knew me as a person. They didn't even it didn't even register to them that I was that person they're talking about, because we had a human connection, which I thought was mean, to me, that was most interesting. I was even mad, I was just like, huh, because they know who I am. They don't fit me into that way. And maybe that kind of color is what I'm doing here as well is because I think I've had a few of these experiences where I've been labeled as as something and have, have heard very hurtful words about myself. Right? Sure. And till they get to know who I am. And so there's this, it's so the human connection is so powerful and so important. And we're losing

Lucas Miller 51:01

and, and, and violence and judgment is really something that is easy to do. Because it It separates us from them and creates an idea of superiority, I see it in myself, I see it in the way that I can speak to people, I see it in our world versus being you know, kind of curious and open. That's really like those three words, I try to come back to my kind to this person right now. My curious, am I open to hearing or receiving the reality? I don't have to like it. I don't have to even you know, there's a point where I'll even draw a boundary like yeah, I'm done being kind of curious and open. But that doesn't mean I need to belittle them or make them lesser, then I'm just done with this conversation, because this person is not participating in a way that feels kind of curious and open to me, you know, like, but yeah, that whole, that whole thing of, of separation. And those guys are the bad people. And those, those people are the ones that are mucking it up for all of us, has really run run rampant during the last number of years. And I think it's always been around. I don't think it's just something that's happened recently, maybe because we have this president or that President. But certainly, I, we've seen more of it. And that division is something that, to me, is really scary. Or maybe, yeah, like and, and more than anything, like, not really like, on the premises of like, what makes our country so beautiful, not to get patriotic here. But like a part of the gift of whatever the idea of America was, was to like have bring your poor, bring your rich, bring your bring your people who believe that bring your people believe this, and as long as you're, you know, fairly well behaved like, you know, we can all we can all be here. Yeah. And I'm seeing people who, who run that flag, you know, not be as an inclusion lists, or as as inclusive, I should say, that's, that's the word I'm trying to use. And I've also seen people who, who claim that they are all for inclusion and for for certain rights for, for people of race or, or gender equality. I've seen them, it's just as much have that hate. And that separation of them. What I'm trying to say is I've seen hate on both sides of the street. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, and I'm, and I'm, I'm not trying to pick on one group or the other. It's just I've seen this idea of separation, but they both feel justified because they both feel like no, I'm defending the thing that is most important right now. We're defending something that's really important to you. And I'm not and I believe it is important. However, that separation is creating huge cracks. And, and those cracks could only get bigger. And those cracks could only create more problems for all of us here, and stead of using these as moments of healing. You know, one of the things that Alan said I really loved on the end of season one he was here we had not I don't know if it was the last episode, I forget which episode it was, but he it's kind of him I think he's bathing and he's kind of talking about things that bring us together. He's like, you know, I'm I believe he kind of talked about things like we all need air to breathe. We all need water. We all need food. You know, just trying to come back to things that we have in common, versus trying to pick topics that are divisive. Yeah, like it's like that going into that like holiday dinner and someone wanting to bring up politics and what divides us. That stuff just makes me like Ah, come on. Like we're over this let's let's let's level up let's all level up. What do we have in common right now? We all need each other to some degree. Like we all we all make what We haven't common let's talk about that too, not to not to just shy away from the hard points. But I think it's time that we come back to things that also reconnect us as human beings,

Sam 55:10

I think to some of the experiences I've had, whether it be a firearms or weight, you know, we didn't have there wasn't that division and these individuals his mind, because we had already connected personally. And so I think part of that is, is the more that you connect personally, the the less divisive, those conversations become, right? Because you respect that person, you say, Wow, if I love and respect this person, then maybe there is something what they have to say, or maybe there is something in what they're saying what they're feeling. I had another just train just left the station on that one. Just had an there was just another thought of, you know, when those experiences were just the more people get to know you and everything, it's, oh, here it is. So we had talked earlier about social media and how like, I had gone off of social media for like five years. And then you know, I made a terrible decision to start a podcast. And if I wanted people to listen, you know, they'd have to find it. And if they have to find it, the social medias the best way to do that. And I'd been off for so long, and I'd come back onto social media. I mean, I had missed all of the the excitement of the last two really the last six years. On social, I had missed it, all right. And I'd been back in and within two or three days, I had, I had seen loved ones, using terrible language and derogatory things about a certain subset, or certain viewpoint or certain perspective, regardless of what direction that is. And it was like, Man, I identify with the group that you're saying those terrible things about, like you're making this general statement. And like, you've just said that about someone who loves you, and how you love and who would drop everything and drive through the night to be there to help you. Right? And so it's just it's gotten so easy to, to hurt people generally that we forget that we have people close to us.

Lucas Miller 57:15

Yeah. So there's this great book out by Brene. Brown, have you read anything from her?

Sam 57:21

I'm sorry, the the reason why I laugh is that I won't go into that I currently have a Brene Brown book, sitting on my dresser. And I'll tell you to laugh when we're done.

Lucas Miller 57:33

You got Yeah. So I read a, I've listened to a few of her books. And this one that I listened to most recently is just about the topic that we're talking about. It's called braving the wilderness. And she wrote this like 2345 years ago, I think it was more than that, I guess, four or five years ago, but it's about this topic of she saw the division coming, and just about how important it is to be able to break the wilderness of these difficult topics, and to be able to navigate them with grace and connectivity. And to still be able to have your belief system intact. And to not necessarily get bowled over, but not to, but to, to, but to be able to speak to it in such a way that you can also hear the other person and and understand why they believe by challenging them. Why do they why do you believe what you believe in? Like, why and not necessarily to ruffle feathers? But just going into this unknown weight place? You know, like, am I gonna see a beast out here? Am I gonna see beauty? You know, like, when you braved the wilderness, I thought that the book because the title would be about something totally different. It wasn't. It's, it's an interesting, it's a great book for folks who are interested in this topic that we're, we're speaking on.

Sam 58:50

That's interesting. I I've never read anything from Brene Brown. And the reason why I was laughing is I have this book, and it's part of an assignment. And so I'm like, I don't like forced, I don't like I like to do things because I want to and when I feel a level of when I feel a level of obligation, or like I'm told to do a thing. It's like, it's like, it's not a it's not like an authority issue. It's just, I want to choose what I my power, right? Yeah. Anyway, so I'm laughing cuz I've got this book. It's like, man it's not the one you mentioned. Otherwise, I'd be like, grabbing it right now. It'd be super excited. So no, I I love that. And I think I've got a question. That's kind of been it's been percolating in my mind for a while and it's gonna be a little bit of a backtrack. But I think I think we're in the same space. We were talking a long time ago about the about you and learning yourself and that ego death experience and you know what happened on a loan? And I'm curious of and maybe Yoga is the answer. But I know it's gonna be deeper than that. But I'm curious about how you cultivate that and how you keep that going. In your life, how you keep yourself in that open space. Do you have practices or things that you do to help you stay there?

Lucas Miller 1:00:18

Yeah, I do. But I'm not always good at staying up on him. But I do. Yeah. Um so yoga, because I have a lot of kinetic energy. Like, I'm a, like, there's some dogs that when they wake up in the morning, they're just like, like, they're big, like big St. Bernard's, like, fall back asleep, like, I'm one of those, like Shepherd Dogs, it's like, once a week, I'm like, let's go, let's go. Where's the mission? Like, what are we going to do? Like, where's the work? So um, I wake up in this, like, a lot of kinetic energy in my body, my mind is moving pretty quick, you know, starts to want to move pretty quick and needs to chew and wrap around something. So So I do yoga, when I'm in a good space, and I haven't been doing yoga for a couple of weeks now. But I'll do yoga asana, so the physical postures, so that I can slow down and like, calms, I soothed some of that kinetic energy, it's moving around in my body, and my mind's moving real fast. And sometimes I can do a sit practice. If I can't do that, that was like one of the big ways of helping me. I tried to just keep that awareness of breath and in my body, and if I can't do that, I at least the ego death for me is knowing when I'm in a situation where I need to apologize to somebody or, or to, so that's another like physical, tangible place, I can go around like, now they're wrong, they handled the situation wrong, they're absolutely out of line. That's where I use that ego death place. I learned to be like, wait a minute, slow down, like you care about this person. I know. It doesn't always feel like it right now. Like you care about this person. How can you remember that they're human being that they have their own side of the story that they might have heard something a certain way, they're also in their own personal place in their body in their mind, they may not be doing great right now, how can I remember this and try to build bridges. Sometimes that's not always easy. For me. Sometimes I want to tell people to go far, far away. And to never come back and sign or, you know, like, forget you. But I think that's a really great way of like, trying to remember like, the to, like release the ego is to try to first drop the intensity. Unless it is like, like, I always have to ask myself am I really actually like under threat right now? Is this person actually hurting me? Or do I just not like the way they talk to me or think right now, don't just not like their perspective. Alright, Lucas, you're not really under, you're not really going to be attacked right now. No one's gonna hurt you. Okay, cool. Then I start to work backwards and be like, Alright, so this is just really a matter of perspectives, and not our perspective CNI. And that's where I try to use, like ego death to try to navigate a place of connectivity amidst a place of disconnected disconnection. Because you just want to pull all the plugs and throw the TV on the ground, right? Like whatever it is, and that's a place that works for me. I'm trying to think of what else works for me to like, come back to it. You know, fasting is another tool that I use sometimes I haven't lately because I'm in the middle of like building a place out here. I cut firewood for people who are that need energy assistance. So like less fortunate people so I keep their wood stoves warm and I might like I'm over committed to all this like some out like cutting mesquite wood and walnut all day and like, except for this week, and because I'm taking some time off for the holidays. And, and yeah, I'm just overran with work. And so I'm like forgetting my self care practices, which makes the rest of other parts of my life kind of like be a little edgier and not be as maintained. And so you know that those self care those practices, whatever it is, whether that's the morning walk, the morning run the journaling, the yoga the I really found that getting up early, actually, for me is like is really important. So that means going to bed at a good time. And having that extra half hour hour to myself. So whatever the world needs me just making sure like okay, cool, I have my shower, my breakfast or whatever time that like getting ready time, but I really waking up a little early and setting aside some time for myself to do the things that feed me. That nourish me, that helped me remember who I am, like, not the Lucas but something bigger and greater than that, like just taking a breath to be there is like really important and sometimes that isn't yoga. Sometimes it's just cleaning up the kitchen. You know, sometimes I'm just like doing dishes, but at least I'm doing something that like for me in a way that feels good. I don't know Do you have any like self care practices that like bring you back to center

Sam 1:05:02

Probably the best self care practice that I could share about getting me back to center is when I start to get in that place of saying, like, Ah, I'm like, Oh, no. Right. So I think for me, I'm not very good at doing a lot of that type of stuff. But I think for me, I thankfully for now, I'm still able to recognize when I start to get too entrenched, when I start to feel too much in a certain way, and I'm able to, you know, talk myself down and talk myself back. But I, I don't want to return to a space where I'm not there, right. So it's something that's that I need to take more seriously and spend more time doing I do we talked, you know, about faith. You know, I, I am a person of faith have a belief system. And I think that is very helpful for me, because what I've, what I believe, and what is true for me in that vein, regardless, all is special people, we're all a special thing, right? We all have the fiber of greatness woven into us. And I think that helps as well. Being able to, to have that connection. And knowing that is probably, I would say that the biggest thing at this point that I do that, that keeps me in that space.

Lucas Miller 1:06:26

That's really beautiful. They say like psychology says that people who have strong faith based systems tend to have more of a spiritual center and happiness, because they're able to not needing to process this them themselves, you know, whatever the complications in life, to process this on to themselves, or to put it on someone else, especially those closest to us, that's often our relationship suffers. Know, we're going through so much humaneness, and then we inadvertently or advertently, put it on other people around us. And so experience, you know, personal responsibility, emotional responsibility is a huge thing I've been learning last couple years, my whole life still probably will be learning it my whole life. Right, I don't have to take care of other people. And I also don't have to put my stuff on other people, though I do it all the time, just learning how to lessen that grip. But you know, one thing that also works for me too is water. I don't know, I just wanted to bring that up like swimming or going to hotspring if you've ever been a hot springs with they're so great. Taking a little retreat, just having a day or two, especially if I feel like that boiler. Like getting like, you know, steams coming out my ears cartoon style, like, just like I can't handle I can't do anymore. It's like, okay, then I need space. I need space where I'm not looking at my phone, I need space where I'm not being asked of not all of us have that capability, or that, that luxury to take space. But if we can, even if it's an hour to, you know, to go swimming or go for a walk or sit by water, I feel like a stream sometimes just the stream will do it for me. Always try to jump in even if it's cold. For some reason, it feels like that takes a lot of that, that stuff away from me. Yeah, like those icky feelings? Are those that feeling of feeling filled up with too much and not able to navigate life? Well, you know,

Sam 1:08:21

it's that's calling to mind memories. And this is going to kind of get into the alone space. And and, you know, we're gonna have to go there, but it's coming to my mind as well, when you're talking about water and how water does that I'm thinking of, you know, since I just watched all of your clips, I never would have remembered this. Had I not, you know, watched season one or your parts of season one yesterday. You had intentions at least it might have happened. It just wasn't shown you had intentions of creating a sauna. And then you know, we know that you know remember Randy he create made a sauna that he used in his spiritual journey, I would assume is what it was. I've had the chance to talk to Randy yet but hopefully will in the future. And you know, Kelly did the same thing. And so it's you know, that seems like that's a function that people can use as well to help clear cleanse.

Lucas Miller 1:09:07

It works. It works great. There's a actually spoke to Kelly and Randy yesterday. Yeah, they're gonna go camping with them in a couple of weeks. Um, they're doing great. And I there's a gentleman in the mountain range. You know, Madera Canyon. Yes, I do. Okay. Yeah. So there's one Native American man, a Navajo man, who, whose grandfather when he was like a young man, led him to that canyon and his grandfather never gave into the never gave him their legs as some of the last people hiding, fighting back in the mountains but never actually got put in two reservations or got put into any sort of like schooling systems. And his grandfather said, I have a vision and you're supposed to lead this sweat lodge here, you know? and he's still doing it today. And I've had the, I've been fortunate enough to sit with him and that feels like it pulls away a lot of that cloudiness, that intensity that builds up because we, we are going to collect garbage spiritual, like stuff, you know, I don't even want to call it muck that covers up our crystal lens. You know, and it's hard to, to value that because we're told to take care of so many things, but it's hard to take care of things that we can't see. But we feel, you know, it's easy to take care of a flat tire when it goes flat. It's like, oh, yeah, I can't go anywhere. But it's harder when, you know, a big, big thing of pain or muck hits our spiritual lens, or, I mean, isn't the right word spiritual lens, but you know what I mean? Like, your inner, inner well being, you know, whatever we're trying to call it, and how to take care of that, especially in this fast paced world, where we're, efficiency is a big part of life. And you know, I'm not gonna go into it, I think people understand what I'm trying to get at, I think these are all tools. And I think people need to need to be inspired to find tools that work for them, you know, like, I'm glad that you have a faith based system that works for you. And I think that's really beautiful. And I think, in nobody should try to ever take that away from you, you know, as long as your faith based system isn't injuring other people, and it's doing good for yourself, and that's fantastic. And, and, and then there's so many other ways that people traditionally have done that, you know, with like, the sweat lodge, or the saunas, or the the spiritual fasting on a mountaintop or, you know, XYZ.

Sam 1:11:41

It's funny, I'm, you mentioned, the saunas, and then, you know, I totally forgotten that, you know, for me, you mentioned discomfort earlier, and then we just want the sauna like, I have a, I'm like a not obsessed, like addicted dishonors. Right. And I've noticed that when I'm not feeling well, when things are like tough, I start to crave, you know, going and just sitting at 180 degrees and just Yeah, cooking myself for 2025 minutes and, and you come out just clean. I don't know. So it's funny, I mentioned that I was like, Oh, wait, I do I do that.

Lucas Miller 1:12:18

And there's a there's a dark side to doing too much of that, which, you know, I don't know how much time we have left, but I'll try to be swift about it. But doing being on the alone show, I think a lot of us came out a little too scoured spiritually. And we didn't have enough of that humaneness and in the world Ness. And it was very awkward and challenging to come back. Because maybe we were doing it was so much it was so much, especially for a person who has an exercise that muscle a lot. And a lot, I don't think a lot of the people have gone on the show of exercise that type of muscle and have scoured really hard and get left years of like trauma, like people have had serious PTSD from the show. Because they've done we've gone way too far, pushing their physical body and with that, dragging their, you know, other parts of their, their being their mental well being their, their emotional well being along, and really maybe taking that a little too far. Because they were ambitious, they were driven. And I think some people really suffered from that. I know I did, to some degree, I don't think as much as others, you know, but to come back into balance or rightness after being so isolated. And so internal, you know, and so driven in a particular way, you know, it's it can be also rough. So I do want to say like, that's what's beautiful about this thing is like, Saunas are great, you know, maybe not seven a day, you know, like, you know, like, like, alone is fantastic, though. I don't, you know, I don't think I'd want to do it every year. You know, like, you know, I've been asked to do the show a couple times they are to come back and to be a part of it in different ways. And and some people have said yes, and I think it's, I think it's a lot. I think it's a lot to do something that big. And I think maybe for people listening to this who are interested in having some sort of connection experience some sort of cleansing experience. I think it's really beautiful to start small. And to try to do like a weekend or an overnight, try to do an overnight by yourself. That's even a whole thing. You were saying that you did an overnight Nebras shelter I'm sure it was like, didn't have an effect.

Sam 1:14:31

Yeah, it was funny. I was pretty young. But, you know, even for being 20 plus maybe about 20 years ago, it is something that I still think back on, you know, on that night and on that experience. Because you just you learn a lot.

Lucas Miller 1:14:48

Totally and and being that alone, where we're so used to having things I mean, really if people don't do this experience, please don't take your phone like charge it but turn it off and have it ready should you should Do you need it? You know, like for an emergency, but really being that still to listen to what comes up? I've done a program through, like rites of passage programs. There's one shoot. Oh, my gosh, okay, I'm totally blown the name right now. But anyways, it's a place that of Indio, California. And they've been doing rites of passage really put people up on the hill for four days and five nights or not five days, four nights without without food. And then there's like, some out there or friends are doing it without food and water for that long, which is like, wow, that's really full power. Yeah. So so they, I mean, these these tools are out there for folks. And, and, and those are extreme ones. Even those are extreme. For days. Have you ever fasted for for that long?

Sam 1:15:53

No, I've done like 24 hours, right? Yeah. Yep.

Lucas Miller 1:15:58

Yeah, the first first day or two is the toughest. And then if you can be in a place where you're not surrounded by food, it gets easier because you switch over to the ketosis, but that first day can fit day or two can people kind of,

Sam 1:16:12

yeah, that's another thing that I've never mentioned. I'm kind of jealous of that experience. As I I want to do that, like, I want to feel that space. But it's like, I think you have to be there. Lots of preparation. It's not something you just say, I'm going to do this and do it. I don't Lucas, this is there's, this is so fantastic. I really appreciated our time and our conversations and and I want to make sure that we can get you back to your day. But I also want to give time for anything else that you feel like you want to say I do want to mention. There's something that that I heard, and I was listening to your stuff. And I think it's like such an important thing. And it was I don't know, it was just it was very interesting. And I I think this is something that I don't know, it was it hit me it hit me really deep. And so you were saying you said this on the show you said what I fear most is an out in these woods. I'm feeling things I don't think I've ever felt. And when I when I heard that she's like, Man that is so deep. You know, I'm what? What I fear most is an out in these woods. And you're obviously alone with yourself. Right? And anyways, I don't know if you have any thoughts on that? Or if there's any I mean, we've covered some of it already. But

Lucas Miller 1:17:35

yeah, that's that's like a whole deep well, but I will speak to it just gently, I think. Yeah. There's, there's stuff that we've inherited through our family lines. Like there's stuff that we've inherited with our stories of our communities and our time in place. And there's not a lot of like, research or words to talk about it and Western culture. But in some of these other cultures I've studied, like I Aveda, there's, there's things that we've inherited from just like if you if you believe in this, this paradigm that there's a part of this world that that you've inherited things. And sometimes we're when we do internal work, we're untying knots that have been left for us. Like each generation before us, if they didn't fix it, sometimes they just add another complication to this knot. And it becomes a pretty simple ball of knots. And I think we're in this really incredible time period that we're not under like huge duress, like we all have food and water, we're not under an imminent threat of war. We're kind of like in a space. We're not pioneers on a frontier where it's like dangerous, and we don't know if we're going to life is still not safe. But we're in a space where we're more emotionally, physically, mentally, I don't know what mentally that's but we're in a safer place to do this work we're going to play so we can actually start to do this work where like maybe in the 1920s or an 1800s It's like you didn't have time for that you had to get out there milk the cows, like, we didn't have time for this, you know, like you were people died by the time they hit 50 You know, or whatever. And and I think that we are in a in a unique timeframe where we are able to start to look at some of these knots that have been given to us that now materializing very personal ways. Like I'm I'm a conglomeration of all my mother's peoples and all my father's peoples and this time in place, and also my choices. And I think it's really interesting when you start to I started to track general generationally, like all these things like starting to look through this like thing and start to understand they're like, for lack of a better word. There's like, ghosts, not like in the sense of like, actual real specters but just like there's murmurings that come through our lineage knots that need untied and they're gonna continue to be passed on until we deal with them. And some of the negative tivity, or the, this, the stuff that we've received that is, is good and not so good is like, you know, we have the ability to maybe put it to bed or put it to rest or to at least address it, or at least to own it, maybe to at least own it and say that this is something that and now I'm sorry, I'm getting a little bit off, off, you know, in a funny way, but I'm going to try to bring it back home here is that I was just starting to see all these different the weavings of my life in this bigger tapestry, this bigger weaving, of not only my mother's family, my father's family, but their families and their families and all of this world. And I started to feel like I understood human, maybe not understood, but saw human experience and how we all are a part of this fabric. And we're always going to have knots. And it's not, it isn't the job to untie all of our knots and be pure and clean, like, but I do think it is important to to look at some of these, especially if we don't want to continue these patterns and behaviors. And it may be out of our power but but to at least put our arms around all of us who are hurting. And all of us that are succeeding and all of us that are crushing life and all of us that are confused at life and just put our hands around all of us. And that's some of the things that I started to experience was the depth of love and care that I felt and it felt like it was like, breaking me like the amount of like love and understanding I was experiencing was so big and profound. It's like, I didn't know what to do with it. Like, whoa, like we are all human beings, like, we need to give people space to be human beings, like we're all gonna, we're all gonna mess this up, we're all gonna muck it up. Sometimes we're all gonna do great, sometimes we're all gonna struggle with having too big of an ego sometimes, because we did do great for a little bit, and then we're gonna crash and fall again. And then we're gonna say the wrong things to the wrong person at the wrong time. And like, I just saw myself in all of it. And it just, it hit me it just hit me really deep. And, and that was some of what I was experiencing. And it's beautiful to feel. I think that's what I want to share with people. It's beautiful to feel even though it hurts. It's okay.

Sam 1:22:22

Yeah, it's, I'm glad you said it that way, because I didn't want to feel awkward. And I said, that's beautiful. Because it does I mean, that was a it was a place of pain. But what you've just described is beautiful. And I really appreciate that. And I appreciate you being willing to share and to go back go backwards seven years. Lucas, before we wrap up, do you have? Is there anything else that you that you want to share? You want to say? Is there anything you want to talk about that we have not made it to today or any records that need setting straight? Anything at all before we wrap? Yes.

Lucas Miller 1:23:00

I can't think of any is there any that you found that I should address? I'm trying to think of like what records needs to be I think I think there's not anything that I need to address according to a loaner

Sam 1:23:18

just didn't just when I when I say that is general Is there anything that's in your mind or in your heart that needs to come out to you that we haven't been able to?

Lucas Miller 1:23:27

Gosh, goodness gracious. You know, I'm just working on forgiveness more and more, like forgiving myself and forgiving other people. And also like this this time of year I've been working on like reaching out to the people that I'm able to and ask for their forgiveness for things that I might have hurt them in the past and I felt like that's been a good medicine for me is to just remember that. You know, apologies are free, you know, and, and also to be open to other people to be a two way street. Right? If somebody needs to say something to, to me, there was this time that when I did did alone, I was getting a lot of messages from people but there's one that stuck out there's this young this woman that I had a relationship when I was younger and and she's she's now like grown up she's she's actually from Scotland and she has like kids and she's like married and all that but she wrote me a really sweet letter and was just like hey, I think I did you're kind of wrong. I kind of think I made some choices and wasn't honest with you. And it wasn't really in that my highest integrity and I kind of drug your drug along for a ride and and just her saying that it was just like really sweet. You know, like really sweet to, to have someone to have someone just own it. There's something really beautiful about just owning that we that we did mess up and I probably need to do that more. There's probably one or two instances in this life where I need to write like the bigger letter to someone and artists own it. But I think it also been that time of year that holy holy day season. You know, it's also really beautiful to, to get right, you know, to get right into clear houses and clean up business. And yeah, I think that's I think that's something that I'm personally working on. And I guess maybe talking about what I guess it came up. That's where I'll leave it right now.

Sam 1:25:23

That's perfect. Well, Lucas, thank you so much. This conversation has been a pleasure and a delight. And I feel like I've learned a lot I've I've definitely felt a lot. And I'm excited. I mean, you mentioned that you're, you know, looking at finding ways to share and to teach and to do these rites of passage and different things. So I'm excited to see where that goes. And excited to, to, I mean, maybe follow if they get if it gets visible at any point in time.

Lucas Miller 1:25:52

I'll share again. Yeah.

Sam 1:25:56

So anyways, thank you so much for your time and for coming on the show. I really appreciate what you've shared and what you've said and done today.

Lucas Miller 1:26:03

Awesome, Sam. It's been a pleasure. And yeah, thanks for telling me your stories and being open. I think you got a really good thing going on here and

Sam 1:26:11

I appreciate that I plan on